Marina Island

General question for Sail Simulator (raising sails, pulling sheets, etc.)

Marina Island

Postby altug » Sun 26 Sep 2004 - 00:26

Hi virtual sailors :D!

It has been sometime and I would like to share with you my second fictious scenery: Marina Island! which ended up enough huge to be sent by email to Texino who kindly hosted my previous scenery ..... also with some 3D models accumulated, I thought it is time for such a page in order to make available my stuff to the SSim and MBSim community.

Marina Island is a virtual island having a marina, a huge cave (this time you can go in and check out Barry's rum barrels :D ) and several bays and beachs. It is full of 3D objects and buoys which increased the file size (18,3MB) and which will cause slow simulation depending on your computer and on your SS/MBS settings.

It would be so nice and useful to have one web location, where all in one gathering, all sceneries, boat styles, 3Ds by Stentec and by users together, ready to download. I hope this will happen one day...who knows. Till than here, you can download my stuff.... :

www.altugphoto.com/sailsim

Have a nice time in Marina Island
altug :D
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WOWWWW!!!!!!

Postby Exocet25fr » Sun 26 Sep 2004 - 21:33

Hi Altug :P !

CONGRATULATIONS for your VERY NICE SCENERY and for your VERY INTERRESTING SITE! :D !

Works FINE with my SS4 and MOTORBOAT v1104!, I'm waiting about the new v1120 patch from Stentec!

Best wishes from France! :wink:
Jean-Marc
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update 1.1.2

Postby Jan » Sun 26 Sep 2004 - 23:09

Hello Jean-Marc

The update 1.1.2 already is there for some months.
You can find it on the Stentec page.
What we are waiting for is 1.2

By the way, i have also downloaded Altug's Marina, installed it with the scenery manager but the only thing i get is a error message.

Jan
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Postby altug » Mon 27 Sep 2004 - 05:30

Thank you Exocet! :D Good to hear that it run well under MBS. I hope it works under MBS 1.2 too.

Hi Jan, can u write me some more details like:
-Did it happen in SS or MBS and which version?
-What the error message says?
Also can u set up the performance settings at SS as I mentioned on the page and try again, and let me know if it is still giving error?

Thanx guys

altug :)
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To Jan & Altug!

Postby Exocet25fr » Mon 27 Sep 2004 - 11:14

I Know the v1.1.2 Patch for Motorboat, but MANY SCENERIES DON'T WORK WITH IT!, IT'S A PITY :cry: !

So I Reinstalled the v1.1.0.4 patch and Cave Island & Marina Island & all of other Sceneries work fine now! :D !

I hope all of these scenery will be compatible with the next v1.2 patch!? :roll:

Bye Amigos! :wink:
Jean-Marc
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Postby Guest » Mon 27 Sep 2004 - 17:57

Hi Altug

Seems i had the same problem as Jean-Marc.
After reinstalling everything worked fine.
Looks like update 1.1.2 is the problem.

jan
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Postby altug » Tue 28 Sep 2004 - 12:18

Thanx for the info Jan!

So that means MBS patch 1.1.2 was adding new stuff but at the same time destroying something else. :?

I really wonder about the result with new MBS 1.2 :roll:
....anybody having new MBS 1.2 and tried to run Marina Island, pls inform me about the result.
I mean Scenery Designer is included in and compatible with MBS.... and a scenery done with SD should normally run in the new MBS 1.2 too right? :roll:
To get the MBS 1.2, I was waiting the download version, untill now... from now on I am waiting also a feedback from anybody about Marina Island's performance in MBS 1.2 :?: .....Let me know please....

altug :?
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Postby Guest » Tue 28 Sep 2004 - 20:33

Hi Altug
Great stuff I tried in sail simulator and that worked but not in MBS (IS STENTEC READING THIS) Where is the MBS 1.2 anyway.
But...........try to use textures instead of modelling everything. An amarican flag of 1112 vertices is a bit big. you could do with only 8 and a texture.
This why it will never be a 'sailable' scenery. At least not with something like I have (P4 1.6GHZ, Geforce2 64MB).
But again the modelling is nice and you invested a lot of time. It also very original.
Keep it up!!!
Alex
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Postby Jan » Wed 29 Sep 2004 - 08:49

Hi folks

I think you're expecting to much from MBS 1.2
As far as i can see the only difference between 1.1.2 and 1.2 is the help for the KNRM boat and some translations.

Jan
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Postby altug » Wed 29 Sep 2004 - 13:15

Hi Alex!

I think I will put a remark next to the scenerys that they dont run under motorboat patch1.1.2. :? About the flags you are totally right. Tricolor ones are ok but as the American flag with lots of stars and bars ended up too heavy. Sometime I will make all of them as you suggest with texture and upload to the site. And thank you for your comments about the scenery. :D
Also, did you try it by night? Do you find the light house beams realistic :?:

....and Jan if you are right :shock: I am just downloading MBS 1 even without the patch 1.1.2 and forget the new version :!: :!: :!: ...

altug
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Postby Barry » Sat 02 Oct 2004 - 23:18

Hi

Mention of rum :wink:
Just downloaded Marina Island to have a try out on it.
I have a slow connection but downloaded fine over an hour or so.
I bought the new 1.2 retail version of m/b on CD rom from UK supplier and also have sailsim.

Loaded OK using the Scenery Manager to the default folder.
Opened one of my own routes to enable me to open the Marina Island.
Opened OK except sea was not moving at first or the boat even full on.
Anyway went back to settings and moved the wind speed up a bit and everything seemed to work OK then.

Frame rates are a bit low in parts down to say 12 but have settings at max at present so would probbaly run fine for me on a lower setting. Not sure if the trees are made with the aplha 32 bit, (WILL ONLY WORK WITH 1.2 m/b SIM), as this only uses say 8 to 16 polygons per tree, 4 triangles per flat plane with picture if double sided? but as trees as a 3D model without alpha 32 bit, would use a lot more , and if a lot of trees would slow the sim down quite a bit perhaps?

Anyway I am off to explore it as the scenery looks interesting.
I imagine the retail version of 1.2 m/b on the sim is the same as the download except you may need to download some items/routes seperately.

So off to find the rum, and then try out other items from Altugs site gradually.

Thanks Altug :D :D :D



P.S. Just been for a tour around the Island. Loaded with no problem this time. Using the tug. Liked the views from the sea with the building along the coast. Will have to look at them in greater detail.
Got myself lost in the cave and entered the small channel to left and sunk the tug. Will have another explore of it maybe tomorrow.
Light-house beams how are they lit?
Did you use Blender for boat.?
How did you smooth hull of boat?
I can smooth just with a material (colour) but not with a texture (image).

It is good fun exploring the route and looking at the different buildings along the coast, and seeing what is around each bend :) .
The route has given me a bit more incentive to try more new ideas.



Barry
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Postby altug » Sun 03 Oct 2004 - 12:56

Hi Barry!

Happy to hear your comments and to get to know that it runs ok under mbs 1.2 :D :D :D

About the trees if I remeber well I got them from Lofoten scenery of Alex so I dont know the methode of creation. They look nice and realistic transparent at SS.

Did you finally find the rum barrels in the cave? I suggest to move the view camera into the boat ( 'Alt' + 'numpad 8' ) and get a wide angle view ( 'Alt' + 'numpad -' ) while sailing/cruising in the cave. Otherwise if the view cam is far from your boat it goes in the rocks and thats confusing.

The channel gets very narrow towards the end, its is good for small boats (max sailing cruiser in SS) with centerboard raised.

Light house beam (aklightbeam.S3D) is a white, 95%transparent cone with emmission turned on.
If you open any S3D in Notepad in the very end of the text you see the following lines starting with Materials=..........

There Emissive values are ' 0 ' by default. If you overwrite them ' 1 ', now this object will shine at night.

The white textured aklightbeam.S3D is not visible by day time as the background is white sky. Unfortunately if a mountain comes to its background while sailing/cruising the beam becomes visible at daylight also. By night with the black sky at its background and emissive values turned on as 1, it shines.

Example any object by default:

Materials = <
item
FaceCount = 123
Power = 0
Texture = 'blablabla.bmp'
Ambient = (1s 1s 1s 1s) ---> between 0 and 1 for transparency
Diffuse = (1s 1s 1s 1s) ---> between 0 and 1 for transparency
Emissive = (0s 0s 0s 0s) --> 1 to make any object shine by night
Specular = (0s 0s 0s 0s)
end

Example 'aklightbeam.S3D' :

Materials = <
item
FaceCount = 2560
Power = 0
Texture = 'aklightbeam.bmp'
Ambient = (1s 1s 1s 0.05s) ------> object became 95% transparent
Diffuse = (1s 1s 1s 0.05s) ------> object became 95% transparent
Emissive = (1s 1s 1s 1s) ------->emissive values turned on object became shining at night
Specular = (0s 0s 0s 0s)
end

I dont know what Power is for. I am curious. Anyway thats how the lights on by night.


For the boat and any 3D I use 3Dmax. There are commands such as 'edit mesh ' and 'smooth mesh' to play smoothly with a shape. But very very difficult(for me) to come out with a nice hull. Also I have problem with importing as WRL. Object looks ok at 3Dmax and if I import as WRL, it looks with strange shades at 3d Editor and at SS as you can see these shades at the hull of akmotorboat.

Also I noticed something to increase the frame rate in such a loaded scenery: if you sail/cruise with a viewcam far from your boat ( 'Alt' + 'numpad 2' ) and get a zoom view ( 'Alt' + 'numpad +' ) (the opposite I suggested for incave sailing/cruising) than the frame rate increases, and the simulation runs smoother.

Huh that was the longest message I wrote. Nice to hear from you Barry. Lets dont give up... :D

altug
Stentec please go for :idea: transparent water surface :idea: !!!
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Postby Barry » Sun 03 Oct 2004 - 16:53

Altug thanks for the lengthy explanation - Just experimenting -
You probably know most of what I have written but may be useful for others.
I converted your static S3D boat to buoy file with Object Editor.
Not sure if you have tried it as buoy file.
Sank like a stone with the default Object Editor Settings but if you alter the mass in main box (Object/Frame Properties) to about 10,000 it will float, then save and export to Scenery Designer.
The XYZ settings to adjust the angle it floats at, if needed.
I also optimised it in Object Editor but not sure if you need to.
Would still them need to add the collision spheres and use the text editor (fix) to get them to work.
I think it is about 30,000 faces in Object Editor and Stentec's static "buoy" boats are around 1,500.
I kept mine I think to around 1,200 to 2,500.
Alex's trees are about 300 faces each I think in Object Editor as are solid with some transparency I think, made from the 2 interleaved flat planes.

With the 32 bit alpha file these would be 2 polys for a flat side of 2 triangles I think, maybe 4 if double sided and 8 for 2 interleaved planes to make a small tree. The catch being though it will only work in Motorboat 1.2 version as its a new function Stentec have addded. But it would mean you could create very interesting coastal scenery with very little cost to the frame rates.
Suspension bridge sides, any skyline of buildings, mountains, tress, forests, vegetation, river banks, cities, individual trees woods, and forests. Also ships rigging, the spokes on the wheels of carts, etc. The list could be endless.

Regarding the vrml file not sure if you you used vrml2.
I don't think vrml1 works.

Thanks for the info on what the different setting do for and will have an experiment with them.
I don't know why Stentec didn't explain these things as they are essential for model making.

I use gmax for creating drivable boats (on fixed track) and dockside items for a train simulator.
Gmax is free but can only be used if Stentec get a commercial licence for a plug-in to use it, and can't see that happeneing anytime soon. Its easy to get a nice smooth looking appearance in gmax by altering the smooth settings up to 180 degrees on boats hulls.
To keep polygon counts low handrails etc need to be just 6 sides, etc on cylinders. Same with funnels, etc.maybe 8 sides for funnels? The more curves the higher the polygon count and lower the frame rates.
Drivable boats you can go higher but thats something apparently in the distant future for our own made boats.

Just discovered the canal you made on your route and like it.
That is my interest on the routes like Ellesmere Port, etc.
In the train sim a working lock has been made by 3rd party and the water will rise to next level and gates open etc.
However that is using fixed track for the boat and a flat plane for the lock water.
managed to make a horse to tow and connect to my narrowboats along the canals in the train sim but getting the legs to animate on the horse too difficult in gmax for me at present. I dont think it can be done at present in the sail or m/b sim as one water level.
You could attach the horse to the horse model offset to be over the canal bank towpath but water would have to be without waves.
But again not much point in trying if we can't move our own made boats.
Found I can save the files in Blender I make for the Stentec sims to DXF instead of vrml2 so can also then use them in the train sim after converting them..after importing them into gmax.

The seperate forums for the motorboat and sailsim don't seem very realistic.
I will be use static floating steamers and sailing ships in the sail sim and will be using static and drivable (if they become possible), sailing ships, square riggers and side wheel paddle steamers in the m/b sim.
Mind you I also use mainly my own drivable sailing barges, steam barges and narrowboats in the train simulator. :wink:

Barry

:)

Addition ..Tried the lighthouse I made with the emissive settings altered to 1. It has a seperate window for the lamp room so just the window can be altered. Shows up fine at night time now. Still can't get it smooth though with a texture in Blender. The static steamer has seperate semi-transparent windows not attached and lights up if I set the emissives to 1 for the windows . Can put lights on any future boats now as long as I don't attach them in Blender and perhaps a few houses with lit windows. Will experiment further.
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Postby yachtie » Wed 06 Oct 2004 - 13:52

Man, that scenery is great, but is way to hard to use, it nearly stops my computer from workin, maybe you could make the same scenery without the buildings & boats, but with the rum barrels in the cave so i can find it!!!!
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Postby altug » Thu 07 Oct 2004 - 23:25

Hi! Unfortunately I know how it is now but I keep it as it is for the time I will upgrade my computer ;)
I can suggest those of you who have Scenery Designer Toolkit can open the scenery there and delete as many items as you like and save it than sail/cruise in a lighter smoother Marina Island.

altug :D
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