Depths? - satellite DEPTH data? - My routes - New approach.

General question for Sail Simulator (raising sails, pulling sheets, etc.)

Postby artpier » Sun 06 Jan 2008 - 23:58

Yay!! I found that switch to turn on the lat-lon display in scenery builder. Now I can place objects as close as my charts will let me get. It's a little button at the top of the tools window.

I'm going to try the cutout method for the tree line and maybe some noticeable trees. Looks like it might work decently. I MIGHT TRy that city block thing I downloaded.

I've downloaded all the scenery I could find, and got inspired to make my own. Kinda fun being able to go sailing when there is no way in the world a sasne person would be out there. Like yesterday...34 degrees F, 40 knot winds and snowing (kind of).

Anyway, thanks for all the help. Now I'm going to go try to get all this to work. I'll keep you posted. I'll figure out how to upload this as soon as I get some eye candy fixed up on it. I think mailing this would be prohibitively expensive. That's like halfway around the world. Are you still on Dialup? I am assuming you are on maybe the Welsh coast of Great Britain?
artpier
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 03 Jan 2008 - 17:28
Location: Washington State USA

Postby Barry » Mon 07 Jan 2008 - 00:42

artpier wrote:Yay!! I found that switch to turn on the lat-lon display in scenery builder. Now I can place objects as close as my charts will let me get. It's a little button at the top of the tools window.

I'm going to try the cutout method for the tree line and maybe some noticeable trees. Looks like it might work decently. I MIGHT TRy that city block thing I downloaded.

I've downloaded all the scenery I could find, and got inspired to make my own. Kinda fun being able to go sailing when there is no way in the world a sasne person would be out there. Like yesterday...34 degrees F, 40 knot winds and snowing (kind of).

Anyway, thanks for all the help. Now I'm going to go try to get all this to work. I'll keep you posted. I'll figure out how to upload this as soon as I get some eye candy fixed up on it. I think mailing this would be prohibitively expensive. That's like halfway around the world. Are you still on Dialup? I am assuming you are on maybe the Welsh coast of Great Britain?


Hi.
Seems like you are making good progress.
Makes it more interesting when making your own area and making bits and pieces as needed.

Near Liverpool and river Mersey GB, so my routes on Stentec DS, go up to Scotland and down towards Wales and beyond.
Better the West side of GB as the more hills and mountains which show better for satellite data.
Flattish areas not so good with srtm2.

Still on dial up myself but most have changed to broadband. No need to change myself at present so give it another 2 years then may have to.

Had this computer a few months with Vista, so scuppered opening scenery designer until new Scenery Designer and SS5.

Been a few years now, but Stentec I think are now also giving SS5 more importance, as I think they mainly make navigation software, digital maps, etc. and specialists in water and air dynamics.as far as I know.

Maybe you could email Stentec your scenery if they agree to put it on DS, but maybe limits to your email size and speed, etc.

Are you using Blender or another program?
If using Blender you need to put the textures on by pressing U key, mouse over mesh window, then project from view, etc.
If shaping the treeline over a background image you will need to join all the triangles and make faces (F), etc.

Lot easier with 32 bit and alpha texture but that should be OK for SS5 hopefully.

If Stentec read this a variety of trees and treeline backdrops would be useful in the ss5 scenery designer for realism.

Barry
Barry
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 22:07

Postby artpier » Mon 07 Jan 2008 - 04:40

I'm not using anything for 3d objects yet. I'm not sure what I'll use. I've never used Blender, but I have used Bryce 3d thingie.

I think I'm going to go ahead and work on this and treat ss5 as a dream until I see something more concrete. I'm going to go ahead and finish it up. If nothing else it will be good experience for when it does come out. Shouldn't take too long.

You must spend as much time on the computer as I do. Kinda wish you worked for some of the tech support I have to deal with. I would love to get that kind of response from them.

Thanks for the help. I'll stay in touch and as soon as I get this looking more like home I'll see about uploading. Have a great year and thanks again.
artpier
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 03 Jan 2008 - 17:28
Location: Washington State USA

Postby artpier » Mon 07 Jan 2008 - 04:43

Say Barry, doesn't the Optimist skiff have a gaff rig?
artpier
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 03 Jan 2008 - 17:28
Location: Washington State USA

Postby Barry » Mon 07 Jan 2008 - 15:59

artpier wrote:Say Barry, doesn't the Optimist skiff have a gaff rig?


I think it was AJ mentioned about the gaff rig a few months back, but didn't know even though have had sim for a few years.

So hopefully Stentec will include gaff rig in their equations essential for my era of interest c1800 give or take the decades.

They seem to be making progress with SS5 .
Latest entry for their screenshots and log of progresss was 21 Dec I think.
http://www.sailsimulator.com/

Barry
Barry
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 22:07

Postby artpier » Mon 07 Jan 2008 - 16:31

Yeah I went and loaded the optimist skiff and it does have a gaff rig. I'm not sure how much like a real rig it isbut there is a gaff. I can't remember right offhand who I downloaded it from. I'm pretty sure it didn't come with the program.
artpier
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 03 Jan 2008 - 17:28
Location: Washington State USA

Tutorials.

Postby artpier » Wed 09 Jan 2008 - 05:47

Hey Barry.

I used that link you posted for the tutorial ( I seem to have lost the copy I had.) and it kept coming back "Not found" You had said you reposted, right?
artpier
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 03 Jan 2008 - 17:28
Location: Washington State USA

Re: Tutorials.

Postby Barry » Wed 09 Jan 2008 - 14:55

artpier wrote:Hey Barry.

I used that link you posted for the tutorial ( I seem to have lost the copy I had.) and it kept coming back "Not found" You had said you reposted, right?


Thought you had saved a copy as now made my site just collectables as it was a few years back.

Don't mind helping with posts on forum but the forum has become almost a deserted ship nowadays and a waste of space on my site for tutorials.

If you send private message mention your email address and will see if I can email the html page with images to you.
Also I can't refer to scenery designer as it does not open with Vista but all the relevant info is in a copy text tutorial following.


See if I can copy the text part here...............
TUTORIAL

MAKING SCENERIES FOR THE STENTEC
SAIL AND MOTORBOAT SIMULATORS
USING SRTM2 SATELLITE DATA


Satellite srtm2 Scenery Tutorial for the Stentec 4.2 sail simulator, and motorboat simulators
Will not work with Vista so only relevant if using Windows XP!

-------------------------------
If using the 3D models, or sceneries or details on this site - USE AT YOUR OWN RISK - NO LIABILITY ACCEPTED... as regards the simulator or your computer crashing, etc. However they all work OK on my own computer.

The Help Information for sceneries and Blender Information is simply my own experience, and may not be correct, or the best way to do things. So again at your own risk, no liablity accepted.


There may be occasional errors, etc, in the details, on the pages.

Perhaps always best to make a back up copy of the original before altering anything, then if it doesn't work out, just replace the original.

As far as I know....

Regarding the Scenery and Dem editor...If creating sceneries yourself, you may need to make the Dem Editor, compatible to Windows 95 or Windows 98 to save a Dem. map if using Windows XP.

Apparently Windows Vista needs file D3DRM.dll to run the sail and motorboat simulators.
This file can be downloaded from the Internet and is also in windows system 32 folder in XP.

Tutorial for Creating SRTM data, version 2. routes/Sceneries for the Stentec Sail and Motorboat Simulators.


http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/index.html


Using 3DEM


http://www.visualizationsoftware.com/3dem/


Virtual Terrain in the Scenery Designer Folder or Download

http://www.vterrain.org/



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This tutorial explains the procedure using satellite data.
The complete scenery ready to sail took me just about one hour to make.
It is the North coast of Cyprus.
The depths were guessed at for the purpose of the tutorial.
Also the links and all the other necessary details are in the other tutorial so we will start off with the 3DEM part. This part is relatively simple so have not made images of it.

1. Open 3DEM. Click the appropriate file type and load your satellite data which you downloaded.
Hold down control to load several files adjacent to each other.
If you wish you can patch missing data. Click Operation - Patch mising data - Draw a box around map and press Enter.
Click Operation. Select smaller area, draw box around area required. Click Enter.
If water is not showing blue. click - Colour Scale - Modify Scale - and at the bottom make sure there is a zero 0 in the box for sea level. Tick - Island - Ocean or Lowlands - for the sea level box.

2. Click Operation - Change Projection - Convert to UTM Projection and click WGS84 and OK.
Also if you wish you can crop the map to a smaller size. Click Operation - Select Smaller Size - Draw a box around area require and press Enter on keyboard.

3. Finally we save it as USGS ASCII DEM and give it a file name.



~~~~~~~~~3DEM Section now finished with~~~~~~~~~~


Next Open Scenery Designer Toolkit and open VTBUILDER again this section is very easy.
1. Click Layer - Import Data - Elevation - OK ...open folder you saved the usgs ascii dem in, and open, and for my scenery I get the following, showing the part of the coast of Cyprus..

2. Click Export Area - Set to Extants and then click Elevation - Merge and Export Elevation.
3. Give it a name and it will save in the same folder you saved the usgs ascii dem in as a .bt file.
4. A Merge and Resample box opens with figures already entered in it.
This again is very simple. The measurements are of 2 sides of your scenery.
The maximum resolution for clarity with the Stentec simulators is 2048 so we want this value for our longest side. The two figures shown in size at this density box is first the x side "horizontal" and Y the upright vertical side.
So in the very bottom 2 boxes. click "any size" above them, and the size for my map shown in the upper boxes is 3042 for X, the horizontal side, and 1249 for the upright, vertical Y side.

So I put 2048 in the x box. (maximum size allowed in Stentec dem editor) and the smaller side is the fraction of it. Just using the figures that are already shown in the upper box "size at this density". which are 1249/3042 multiplied by 2048. Use windows calculator, for me.. 1249 divided by 3042 multiplied by 2048 gives us 840.8 so call it 841 and I entered this in the vertical Y box.
Sounds a bit complex but once you see the panel you will understand.
Just basically put 2048 for your longest side, and the smaller side is the fraction shown of 2048.
These go in the bottom 2 boxes. You don't alter anything else.
Click Ok and we get a succesful written .bt file notice. This automatically goes in the same folder as the usgs ascii dem


VT builder doesn't seem to close on my computer and I have to close it with Windows Task Manager / Control - Alt - Del...find vtbuilder in the list to close if you have problems.
But again only takes a minute.


~~~~~~~~~VTBUILDER Section now finished with~~~~~~~~~~

At the time of writing 26 September 2006 - If using windows XP you may need to make the Scenery Designer and Dem Editor compatible to Windows 95 or windows 98 to be able save the DEM map - In Program Files open the Stentec Folder and dem editor folder - Right click on the icon that open the program - Properties - make compatible and click on windows 95.
Mine seems to work with windows 98 or ME in the box.



The .bt file actually made the terrain greyscale for us so we now open the Scenery Designer, and then the Dem Editor, and load the .bt file we made, and we get the Following grey-scale dem.
However if you remember the sea was 0 (zero) in 3DEM so we now need to clear this to enable us to place our depths. These are not made with the satellite file.
But this is again is very simple to do.



1. So Click dem/Set no data/Single Height/ put 0 in the box but probably already in.
I take the tick out of "set as new" as don't want a fresh map as just altering this one.
and we get


This map means that the land is all ready to generate but we need to lay some depths. If you run the mouse over the dark part you will see the height at each spot you look at. To make a map you would just like to sail on and admire the scenery it is not necesary to plot accurate depths and the simplest method is as follows.. that is if you are making a complete scenery within one hour as this one.

Click the line symbol at the bottom which you see in the image on the left side, the pencil is above it.
A height box opens at the right. Put say (minus) -5 in it. and run a line all around the coastline right next to the land. Use the magnifying glass symbol to enlarge.

Right click to release thread. Make sure all the land is surrounded. Make sure there are no single pixels without a thread around. One solitary pixel could make a spike or a whole land mass. You can remove any bits you don't want. set the depth to 0, and use the pencil icon and click TWICE on the unwanted pixel, set no date to zero and it will remove it.
You can draw a box around an area to work on sections. I use it to open up rivers. You can set "no data" to clear a range of height within the box, a solitary height, or the complete area. Keep backing up you file as you progress in my case cyprus01, cyprus02, cyprus03. You can always delete these when you finish.

But to continue run some more depths, working outwards to the deep sea, say minus -8, minus -12. minus -20, minus -30, or whatever you want. Also make sure you press Apply, at the right hand side for each depth as you lay it. It turns from pink to black lines and we get... (lines bit hard to see against the pink). When finished save with a name.





Good progress getting made. Easy to lay depths as just like using windows paint program drawing lines. You just set a value for each line in the box and click apply. Be careful if using the pencil. You can still run this along wherever you want, as the first time you click, it uses the depth used previously, CLICK TWICE to start with, each time you change the depth/height. Depths need a minus, e.g -7 before them in the box.
Anyway enough nattering from me.
Although we have the terrain already to generate we also must now get the depths ready.
Click DEM - Interpolate and you will see the progress bar at the bottom. The more depth lines you placed the quicker it will interpolate. When finished save with a name.

Your version will look like a black blob, but if you press the water wavy symbol at the top, you can see it in the previous image, it shows how your scenery will look. If anything looks wrong you can go back and alter the appropriate bit, using no data to remove it, and putting the correct depth etc.
Post on forum if you have any questions.
Also as mentioned keep backing up and saving. You can always delete what you don't want.

Just one more small thing we must do before the terrain is ready to generate and that is change it to a "scene" file which the Scenery Designer uses. Just needs a few mouse clicks. So it's click DEM on top line of previous image - Convert Projection - Scene - WGS 1984 is probably already in the Preference Datum box, and we get a slightly tilted map with a pink surround of blank dem...You can just see the pink in the image. Use the magnifying glass symbol to keep a full clear view of the pink part showing on the screen.






All we have to do is crop the picture as we do with any other, so click the dashed square symbol on left side, third from bottom. Draw a box around the map so it clips off the pink part.
This is important as the map won't load in Scenery designer if you leave any on and you might have to redo it.

Then Click - Edit - Crop - and click OK in the box that pops up as below.
Save with a name you can recognise, as this is the final file to generate the terrain.


~~~~~~~~~DEM EDITOR Section now finished


Open the Scenery Designer. Click File - New - in your folder open the dem map you just saved. This will be complete with co-ordinates and spacing already entered so you don't need to make any alterations and we get .. This is a screenshot and only shows part of the scenery showing North Cyprus and ready to generate the scenery.


Click Ok and we get the terrain made . Your route may look lika a white blob at first as we need to put a texture on the terrain. 3rd button on right to load a texture. I use my own coloured one. Use mine if you wish out of the scenery folder Used in the last scenery or 2.
Default is Program Files/Common Files/Stentec Shared/Sceneries.
Use the slider to show the desired effect.
Next is colour bands. I just import them from my other sceneries.
Again use mine if you wish as with the texture.
You click on the scenery file to import colours or set your own.
Click clock symbol then use cursor position and click where you want to start on the scenery.
Set time etc. File save. I save to the default folder as detailed before. Also click File and then Register and save again.


Off for a sail around Cyprus


END OF TUTORIAL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Microdem

An excellent program written by Professor Peter Guth of the Naval Academy

Microdem

http://www.usna.edu/Users/oceano/pguth/ ... crodem.htm



If using Microdem for any reason... some basics. I do not know if it will work with the Stentec Scenery Desigener as I used it in conjuction with Hog for Trainz.
But the notes below are also for my own reference and back-up, as perhaps may be usefull for SS5 new Scenery Designer when available..

I am using srtm2 (2nd version) files and for this short text tutorial tile N54W005 which has the Isle of Man on it.
You can use whatever tiles you choose but we need to keep the size fairly small.
Isle of Man is say 30 to 40 miles which makes a very large tga file.
Open Microdem.. but before starting set Microdem up so more tabs become visible Options then click Regular in the Menus Panel.

File/Open/Open Dem/ All files.. and go to where you saved your hgt file of your choice and open it. At the top of the window with the coloured map of the file you opened click the dotted square and draw a box around the Isle Of Man starting top left. Try and keep the square close to the area you want. The program will then automatically crop it. Before we start we could remove the clutter from the image as we will need to save it at the end as a tga file. Modify/Grid/then tick Neither. Also Map Marginalia/then take the ticks out of the boxes.
Also we need the Map as UTM so File/Save Dem/Reinterpolate UTM.

To open several maps to join automatically .
If you want to use a section from satellite data section that overlap you download the ajacent ones, before cropping by drawing box around required section.
So Data Manipulation/Merge/Dems/Dems-pick multiple/then give it a file name and save. Close this window. Then from the main microdem window File/Open/Open dem .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barry
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 22:07

scenerys

Postby artpier » Wed 09 Jan 2008 - 16:38

ASCII.. that was it. I was forgetting to save as an ascii file. I think I'm going to start over and pay attention to what I'm doing this time. I think I have all straight in my head. You've sure been a lot of help. I may actually get this done.
artpier
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 03 Jan 2008 - 17:28
Location: Washington State USA

Re: scenerys

Postby Barry » Wed 09 Jan 2008 - 17:52

artpier wrote:ASCII.. that was it. I was forgetting to save as an ascii file. I think I'm going to start over and pay attention to what I'm doing this time. I think I have all straight in my head. You've sure been a lot of help. I may actually get this done.


Hi got a email to say about your 2 private messages.
Had a look, but can't see your own email home address.

It was only if you needed the images to email to your own email address, but all the information is in the text tutorial I posted and don't only know any more than what's in it, and can't check anything as Scenery Designer now useless with Vista.

The text tutorial is exactly the same as what was on my site except for the few images.

If problems with the tutorial maybe post on this thread and will "try" and help.

Barry
:)
Barry
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 22:07

Postby artpier » Wed 09 Jan 2008 - 18:05

Hi Barry,

Don't worry about the images. The text was all that was needed. Your tutorial is on my computer (or on a CD) somewhere. It got infected a couple of months ago, and I got mad and formatted my system. A number of things got misplaced. I had o get 3dem again, and thought I would have to download the DEM's again, but I found them. Someday i will learn that when I get mad like that it generally costs me more than I gain.
artpier
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 03 Jan 2008 - 17:28
Location: Washington State USA

Postby Barry » Sat 12 Jan 2008 - 17:23

Please post on the Stentec forum if you have questions when following the tutorials, as unlikely to read Stentec forum p.m. and may miss emails.

Thanks

Barry
Barry
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2003 - 22:07

Re: Depths? - satellite DEPTH data? - My routes - New approach.

Postby deckhead » Sat 02 May 2009 - 07:38

Barry wrote:Depths? - satellite DEPTH data? - different approach to my sceneries.

With apparently so few people making sceneries, or posting, I don't know if this post will get any feedback, but no matter.
With srtm2 data although the resolution is fairly coarse, by using it in conjuction with the Stentec Dem. Editor, a reasonable result is obtained.
With most of my sceneries available for download they are about 50 to 60 miles, which I think now is far too big for much accuracy.

So decided on a different tactic from now on.
Although I was going to leave future scenery making until the "possible" appearance of a new Scenery Designer/Dem Editor and SS5, and I had made a detour into into Virtual Sailor scenery making,
However I think, after much experimenting, that the Stentec Scenery Designer/Dem Editor, in conjuction with srtm2 data, is more suited to my requirements now..
I must admit that I am new to computer simulation but I feel that in some area's there is a parting from the real world of charted features. What matters to a navigator in tidal waters is the actual depth in metres at any given time plus the direction and speed of the tidal streams encountered. This means of course that the appearance of bays, estuaries, headlands etc.. is constantly changing. Objects on land, man made or natural, are only featured as aids to navigation from a navigators point of view. This kind of info. is available from websites devoted to Maratime Navigation, though I admit, it would be an extremely challenging project.
deckhead.

So started afresh and started with remaking the Conway and Menai Straits scenery.
The difference being, the MAXIMUM scenery size now being 50 kilometres approx., which will give a pixel size of about 25 metres.
This allows for finer tuning of rivers and creeks and also for finer control of depths, and very small missing islets can be added by hand.

This size as regards a sailing simulator I think is large enough at say an average speed of say 10 miles and hour, for small sailing ships will give several hours relistic sailing, probably double that as rivers and creeks can be several miles long. 5 to 20 miles in some cases. Much more if tides appear and waiting for the tide to get ovet the "bar" sand banks into the rivers, etc.

Will be adding ALL rivers and creeks however small. If I can find them on a map.
Not racing as that is a seperate issue, as in future plenty of realistic sandbanks shallows, and rocks at least in my sceneries.

If anyone knows how to use satellite data DEPTHS, (if there are any free relevant to Europe), in conjunction with the the srtm2 terrain please post. This is the sticking point now trying to get some realistic depths , without spending a huge amount of time in the process.

To make sceneries of many parts of the world is now fairly easy, (at least the terrain part), using srtm2 satellite data.which is free to download. (see my site for tutorial). What takes the time is adding depths. Even adding the scenery 3D content is faily easy and you can make any bits and pieces, including rocks,etc as you go along. Post on forum for further details or see my site.

The Menai Straits, North Wales has a very strong current of up to 8 knots, and in the middle section there is a rocky dangerous area called the Swellies, between the 2 suspension bridges. This is just an example of the sorts of feautures that I need to place for realism, even though my sceneries are set in c1800 (give ot take a few decades).

As always post on the forum if you want any help, but in return please post any RELEVANT feedback and discusion.

Barry
deckhead
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat 02 May 2009 - 00:02

Previous

Return to Sail Simulator - General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron